A110 failed suspension framework

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AlbertMay
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A110 failed suspension framework

Hi all.

My cars passenger front side suspension framework - its called a CUP/FR shock ABS - where the damper rod and knuckle joint connects at the top has snapped on both sides!! All other suspension components are fine. Has anyone had the same problem and if so does anyone know where a more substantial aftermarket part can be sourced. I believe this part should never fail like this and don't really want to fit an original replacement that may fail again in the same way.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tk9vdi2q0i8jn ... 0.jpg?dl=0
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Jérôme P.
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

Has it failed on the road ? track ?
There have been reporterd cases caused by on track "curb jumping" as this part is designed to act as a "fuse" to avoid dammage to the body rails themselves.
Yes stronger replacement parts exist, you may want to check with David Pook at Life 110.
However there is some debate going on as to if there is no more fuse, what could be the consequences... ?
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

Alpine A110S
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AlbertMay
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

It happened on a normal road with a sharp depression in the road surface, not pothole, that caused the car to bottom out it seems. I've seen that MP-Rezeau and Signatech offers replacements. I've also seen that the part is designed by Renault to fail to protect the rest of the bodywork and chassis. The question is should it fail on UK roads?? Has anyone got experience with the MP-R or Signatech replacements?
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AlbertMay
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

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Jérôme P.
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

AlbertMay a écrit : 01-sept.-2021 13:15 It happened on a normal road with a sharp depression in the road surface, not pothole, that caused the car to bottom out it seems. I've seen that MP-Rezeau and Signatech offers replacements. I've also seen that the part is designed by Renault to fail to protect the rest of the bodywork and chassis. The question is should it fail on UK roads?? Has anyone got experience with the MP-R or Signatech replacements?
Are UK roads that bad ? :mrgreen:
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AlbertMay
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

In general UK roads are far worse than French roads in terms of repair and damage.
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

MP Rezeau has already given their opinion on this forum about the idea that this part would be designed to work as a fuse.

https://forum.alpinerenault.com/viewtop ... 20#p476120
Alpine A110S
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AlbertMay
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

Thanks.. can anyone who has fitted an MP Rezeau chapel provide feedback on it
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

Dear AlbertMay,

I feel sorry for your problem. We had some reported breaks but really few, mostly due to intensive track usage, so you seem quite unlucky there. Not nice but, it can happen, and it does also quite a bit with more other prestigious brands like Porsche.

Not easy to tell whether the fuse function is really as critical as Alpine say or not. Personally, I do believe there is a part of truth in it. But using my A110 quite regularly on track I have chosen to have the reinforced Signatech part installed by NM Engineering near Lille. So far all good.

If you don't know them, Signatech is in charge of the development and production of the A110 Cup and GT4 for Alpine. They are also the team operating the Alpine Hypercar that finished 3rd in the last Le Mans 24h. So their parts development engineers' are among what's best around.
It's the reason I chose to trust and choose their part for my car.

Now to the fuse part, if you believe (like me) that there is a part of truth in it, you necessarily take some risks in replacing the original Alpine part by a reinforced one. Let's be clear about that. Now to what extend ... that's another good question.

My personal opinion, based on my feelings and appreciation of a technical field which I have no clue about (let's be clear here too) is that Alpine might have been a bit overprotective in defininging the level at which this part should break to protect the chassis and that there is probably some room for more. If yes, than the question is how much more... My choice for the Signatech part is simply because having designed and engineered the same part for the Alpine Cup and GT4 + the feedback of the thousands of miles these cars have run on competition tracks, I trust more their ability to define the right breaking point of that part than MP Rezeau, which has a great tool to make nice Aluminum forged parts, but to me not the right level of expertise to design a critical part like this one. MP Rezeau has chosen to use a more resistant Alloy than Signatech, but why should I need for my driving a more resistant alloy than what the Cup & GT4 need in competition? If there is a part of truth in the fuse function, is raising the breaking point above that of Signatech not just too much?

Well, this is just my personal opinion. I hope it helps you making up yours ;)
Chapelles Signatech install.jpg
164077434_5152451178160157_6626452367354676814_n.jpg
163410790_5152451304826811_2876242158715809383_n.jpg
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AlbertMay
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

Black110 .. thanks so much for your detailed response that's very helpful. Do you have a web link or tel number for Signatech, I can't find them, or did you buy from NME? What was the price?? Is your car on lowered race springs.. mine is.
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

AlbertMay a écrit : 02-sept.-2021 10:59 Black110 .. thanks so much for your detailed response that's very helpful. Do you have a web link or tel number for Signatech, I can't find them, or did you buy from NME? What was the price?? Is your car on lowered race springs.. mine is.
Comme l’indique MP-Rezeau la pièce d’origine ne peut avoir été conçue par Alpine en tant que fusible du fait du danger de perte de contrôle que représenterait la casse de la dite pièce sur route ouverte.

Par ailleurs ils précisent bien que la casse de cette pièce est plus probable y compris sur route, avec des amortisseurs plus fermes ou des ressorts courts ce qui est ton cas (AlbertMay). Ce qui me chagrine car je monterais bien des ressorts courts Eibach pour la rabaisser un peu.

Leur explication est tout à fait clair et logique :

« La casse des chapelles arrive lorsque votre amortisseur est en compression, que la distance entre la butée de choc et le corps d’amortisseur est très faible. Cela est donc d’autant plus fréquent avec l’utilisation de ressorts courts ou d’amortisseurs de compétition. Lorsque l’on rencontre un nid de poule ou un vibreur le combinée ressort-amortisseur n’a pas le temps de ralentir suffisamment une accélération brutale du triangle inférieur créant un effort mécanique brusque dans la chapelle. »
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AlbertMay
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

Thanks fastlane .. that's also useful feedback.
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

Did you involved the warranty from Alpine ?
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AlbertMay
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

Alpine were not interested saying pothole damage is outside of warranty!!!
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Laurentlap
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

Lowering thé car actually increases roll and is detrimental to thé grip. Optimal height is that of thé S
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

AlbertMay a écrit : 02-sept.-2021 10:59 Black110 .. thanks so much for your detailed response that's very helpful. Do you have a web link or tel number for Signatech, I can't find them, or did you buy from NME? What was the price?? Is your car on lowered race springs.. mine is.
Welcome.

https://www.nm-engineering.com/

I bought from NME, but also had them install the part. Speak to Marcel (the owner), not sure abt his english, but he will give you the best advice about how to get the part. Not sure whether you can but the part directly from Signatech as they use resellers like NME, public price should be everywhere the same, but advice is good with Marcel. Otherwise Mechapart also sells parts for Alpine.

If I remember well part is abt 1200 EUR (price for the pair ... :lol: )
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

So I got a replacement part from Renault on an emergency order basis and instead of taking 8-10 weeks as initially told it in fact took just one week. The part is not side specific and be used on passenger or drivers side. Since the part is only £126 I ordered two in case it fails again. To fit the part only takes about 1.5 hours so all told it wasn't a huge bill.

Inspecting the part it had a 2019 stamp on it and the breaks seemed to have crystaline sparkles indicating a potentially poor casting. The replacement unit had a 2020 stamp on it so is definitely from a different and newer casting batch.

I fitted the part and then went on a 2500 mile hard driving tour in the Alps where the car had no problems at all.

The suspension expert I use believe there were two problems. Firstly, a casting issue and secondly the dampers/shocks on a PURE are not strong enough to deal with sudden shocks. On an A110S they have stronger dampers so the issue is less likely to arise. Also, he warned against using a stronger suspension tower part since unless all the other suspension components are uprated then a fault would arise elsewhere. I'll be looking for stronger dampers but not the A110S one's since they are too strong, and too expensive, and would ruin the ride of the PURE.

All up my car is fixed, I have a spare part in case it breaks again but I'm going to upgrade the dampers. Any suggestions on dampers would be welcome.
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

Hi Albert,

Good to hear that you found a solution in a relatively smooth maner.
Agree with you remplacing the suspension tower for more resistant ones cannot be neutral. One has to be aware when taking the decision, hence my remarks.

Re dampers, from my experience you have the following solutions available:

Life110 Springs: judging from your habits probably a good alternative. Bit firmer, not too expensive, more road oriented, but you only improve the springs + for you local ... :wink:
KW: good solution if you are track oriented (which does not seem to be your case). Probably the most cost effective one, for track.
Öhlins: My personnal choice for mine. Top material, best for track & road, but probably twice the price ... :roll:
P2S: NME worked with them + engineer on track to developp a specific solution. Probably worth looking at.

:drink:
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Re: A110 failed suspension framework

For track use, only thé kW clubsport have thé right Spring rates. Ohlins are way top soft.

Thé général Idea of a 'weak link' shifting from one component to another is more often than not wrong. A car may have one or several weaknesses in its châssis, and using stronger parts can just fix it. It's not because you fix suspension towers that something else will fail. It may just bé that After fixing this issue thé châssis will globally bé ok to cope with thé stress of semi slicks (or even slicks)
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